Howard Lutnick testified he saw Epstein’s massage table as ‘sexual in nature’ during 2005 visit

When asked by investigators what he believed Epstein meant by “the right kind of massage,” Lutnick responded, “That it would become, in some form, sexual in nature.”

Lutnick said the comment immediately alarmed both him and his wife.

“It was based on his comment that was inappropriate and gross to me and my wife,” Lutnick testified. “It just was off-putting, and we left.”

The testimony was part of a nearly four-hour closed-door transcribed interview conducted May 6 by the House oversight committee, as lawmakers continue a sweeping review of Epstein’s network and the conduct of prominent political and business figures tied to him.

Oversight committee Chairman James Comer (R-KY) defended Lutnick after the interview, arguing the commerce secretary had been transparent in recent months about his limited interactions with Epstein, while acknowledging that he had not been “100% truthful” about some of his earlier responses over his interactions with Epstein.

“There’s only so many questions you can ask Howard Lutnick, who lived, had a property next door to Epstein in New York, talked to him three times over a decade,” Comer told reporters after the testimony.

According to testimony and committee descriptions of the evidence, Lutnick and Epstein were neighbors in Manhattan from roughly 2005 to 2019, but only interacted in person three times.

The first interaction was the 2005 town house tour. The second came in 2011, when Lutnick said he briefly visited Epstein regarding a neighborhood dispute involving a construction project.

The third occurred in 2012, when Lutnick and his family attended a lunch at Epstein’s property in the U.S. Virgin Islands while vacationing nearby. Lutnick described it as “unsettling” and “inexplicable” that Epstein’s staff somehow learned his family would be traveling near the island and reached out to arrange the meeting.

“I still have no idea how his staff discovered my family’s vacation plans or why they pursued arranging a visit with me,” Lutnick testified.

Lutnick said Epstein initially appeared interested in meeting with him alone, but said his wife insisted any visit would include their entire travel party, which included another family.

He also repeatedly testified that he never witnessed Epstein engage in sexual conduct with young women or girls and never saw inappropriate activity during any of the encounters.

Lawmakers pressed Lutnick over comments he made publicly last year claiming he was effectively “one and done” with Epstein after the town house visit, despite later documented interactions.

Lutnick defended those statements by arguing he meant he never again placed himself alone in a social or business setting with Epstein after deciding he was “gross” and “disgusting.”

The committee on Wednesday released a separate transcript from Gateway founder Ted Waitt, who testified he dated Ghislaine Maxwell for roughly six years after meeting her and Epstein at a 2003 Hong Kong dinner attended by former President Bill Clinton.

Maxwell is serving a 20-year prison sentence for conspiring and assisting with Epstein’s abuse of minors, and was convicted in 2021, nearly two years after Epstein’s death in prison while awaiting trial on sex trafficking charges.

Waitt testified that he later regretted allowing Maxwell around his children and said he now viewed Epstein’s circle as part of a broader culture that protected powerful people from scrutiny.

The committee is slated to interview Tova Noel, the prison guard who was on duty at the time of Epstein’s death, on May 19. Former Attorney General Pam Bondi is scheduled to be interviewed later this month on May 29.